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Poster: sntb Date: Jan 4, 2012 7:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Ned and Donna Together-the time has come

After reading so many posts debating the merits of both Donna Godchaux and Ned Lagin, I had an idea. Use the toys on my Mac to make the ultimate duet (strange that it never happened in reality).
First off, my candid opinion of each:

Ned: Though I may not always want to sit through 20 minutes of analog synth noise, I find him to be one of the most fascinating and mysterious characters in the Dead family. That he was accepted (by mostly Jerry and Phil, it would seem, as they still retained avant garde aspirations) is a very cool thing. That he voluntarily erased himself from GD history (as much as possible) is even weirder and cooler. That he was doing what he was doing in front of 30,000 people was way cool. No avant garde electronic noise artiste could ever aspire to that.

Donna: When I was 15, I totally had a crush on Donna in the GD Movie. Then I succumbed to the "Donna Sux" cult, without much thought. A 12 year non-Dead period followed, and when I delved hardcore back into the band (4 years ago), I reevaluated her. The verdict: she was WILD! That's why the guys loved her! How unfitting would it be if these untrained singers and often sloppy musicians had Emmy Lou Harris with them? Why do you think Joan Baez totally sucked with them? She was one of the boys! Unpredictable as a Jerry guitar solo (will it suck? will it make us swoon?)

Re-listen to "Cassidy" from ACE or all of the Cats Under the Stars album. Donna rules!
So I'm firmly pro-Donna now.

Anyway....as I was saying. I made this movie, imagining a crazy, noisy duet between Ned (and Phil) and Donna.
I know, it's a bit of a rush job, but I think it's worth a gander....It was fun to make, and I consulted the forums here for some choice Donna moments.

(if you've not taken a look, the angle I pursue in my Dead-related youtube clips is that of someone who likes a lot of different kinds of pop, punk, classic rock, new wave...but doesn't really get the Dead. My videos are intended to educate a bit. To create a middle ground between the closest-minded Deadhead and the biggest Dead hater. Some have objected to my attempts at humor, but those are exactly the humorless people the jokes aren't intended for.) Anyway,
This video was done as a tribute to the greatness of Ned and Donna, who I think should get a lot more love. Hope you enjoy it at least for a hoot. Again, it was fun to make.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhhguK36u0I&;list=UUWG-v5qdr-JehUEuKjVpwrg&index=1&feature=plcp

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Jan 5, 2012 5:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ned and Donna Together-the time has come

True, the time has come!
I was expecting more Donna actually....a string of those Playin' screeches perhaps, or one of those nonstop Scarlet moans....
This was one collage I liked:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK41Mml6uN0

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Poster: sntb Date: Jan 5, 2012 7:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ned and Donna Together-the time has come

Thanks! That feedback/noise is one I did too (not sure if that's what you were referring to).
Oh, I did initially single out several PITB, but they didn't work because the band is always going full tilt behind her. I favored snippets (the the Scarlet breakdowns) where the band breaks down.
Though one thing I had to put in no matter what was the 6/25/78 NFA jam where Donna seems to have a melt down during NFA. The whole band is just unabashedly wasted that show.
I love Grayfolded, and was doing stuff like this years ago w other things, but I'm doing the poor man's version for sure. Sarcasm is a hard read in print, so perhaps that comment was meant like that.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jan 4, 2012 10:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ned and Donna Together-the time has come

Did you work on the Greyfolded project? ;-)

I did not know anything about Lagin other then to fast forward through his music, after previously listening to a bunch to get its flavor. The British where the ones doing the type of Space music I liked in '74. Hawkwind, PF, ect. I felt most of his music w/ Phil was made for musicians and not for audiences I did not know his disaffiliation from all things GD.

I love Donna. Maybe not the sweetheart of the rodeo, but someone you didn't have to count every card with and you could just have some fun. (Or so it appeared or until '78.) I turn her down every time on PITB. I have done that for years so I'm like a trained seal with my muscle memory. Scarlet is iffy. But she makes some songs. BIODTL and a few others I can't remember b/c I don't like feel like finding my DB. (C'mon Donna lovers,. fill in the blanks.) But mostly it's her work w/ JGB. At times transcendent. At times sublime. But almost always very sweet.

A very neat post. Please post more and thanks!

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Jan 5, 2012 7:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ned and Donna Together-the time has come

That was neat. Well done sir. The Donna selections you made work really well. Nice informative intro as well. The majority of heads have no idea who Ned even is, so kudos for sharing some valuable knowledge about the band's history.

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Poster: sntb Date: Jan 5, 2012 7:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ned and Donna Together-the time has come

I'll admit, my favorite moments are when Ned's squeaks and Donna's voice hit the same note.
During the "keep me hiiiigh", there happened to be a beep doing the exact same note. Happy accident. So I extended the moment for a few seconds.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jan 5, 2012 7:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ned and Donna Together-the time has come

Regarding Donna, my opinion of her has become more defined recently. Listening to the interview included on the bonus DVD included in the Dead Movie bluray release, it has her talking about how she really didn't like the Wall of Sound, that she was basically unable to hear herself on stage despite the fact that the design of the WOS was suppose to negate the need for on stage monitors (I particularly liked Bob's explantion of the dual mics). Her atonal caterwauling during this period is now very understandable. Being steamrolled by the massive force of the WOS would leave anyone capable of little else other than strangling cats with barbed wire. Listening to 76 and 77 shows, where I assume she had the luxury of a quality onstage monitor, her sound was infinitely better. Not great, to my ears, but markedly better. Even better was her studio work, where she was able to fully hear herself in combination with the music and really add a quality that enhanced the music.

I know there are some vocalists who can nail a performance, regardless of what the on-stage set up is. Donna doesn't seem to be one of those folks. Could she sing? Yes. Could she be a valuable contributor to the sound of the band? Yes. Could she sing without a monitor? Apparently the answer is HELL NO.

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Poster: chris in long beach Date: Jan 5, 2012 8:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ned and Donna Together-the time has come

Hey, is the Blu-Ray release worth the upgrade? Is the video quality much better?

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jan 5, 2012 8:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ned and Donna Together-the time has come

Video quality upgrade of the bluray is so-so, but the additional music on the DVD bonus disc is where the gold is. Strictly music, complete songs with no cut-aways to drugged out folks offering their opinion on things. I'd buy it for the DVD alone (the Scarlet is about as good as it gets). Plus the included interviews with Bob, Donna and Bill K are great.

This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2012-01-05 16:52:50

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jan 5, 2012 12:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ned and Donna Together-the time has come

is there additional bonus music on the blue ray that wasnt on the regular DVD relase? It has scarlet, other one, china/rider, wrs,sugaree and i cant remember if theres more. I'm assuming it's the same

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jan 5, 2012 12:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ned and Donna Together-the time has come

Couldn't say as I never saw the first DVD release, but it sounds the same.